Brenton
AhmedSL Bradish: Lets all take a moment to breath
July 25th 2008 12:28
Firstly, I'm going to point out that I very, very rarely agree with Bradish. I find her POV at best, inaccurate, at worst malicious. I find the brand of arrogant patriotism that is a hallmark of so much of conservative argument, and the US AND THEM Dichotomy to be completely despicable.
However i write this here because right now I can't work out if Bradish is playing the unfortunate giraffe to a gang of pihrannas, or a black woman to a pack of Klansmen. Basically; she is being attacked from all angles.
Now, sure, go for it. Of course you have every right to sling mud. I'm only jealous that the only mud i ever got was from Norm.
However there is a certain irony that ought be appreciated. That in our disgust tat this woman is using her right and ability to self expression to spill hatred and bile, we are doing the same. ONe of us smelt blood and the rest have swam in for the kill. It really does make everyone look so justified when we call names lie the 'old cunt.'
It's not really my place to try to pull everyone into line (especially when I'm more comfortable stirring shit than cleaning it). I don't really have a legal or ethical argument to defend. All I want to say is that while we're all enjoying our little shitfight, I really hope nobody tries to pull the one about defending the principles of good, or teaching a lesson or standing up for what's right or whatever; it's a high shool bullying frenzy on a woman whose predominant crime is to belong to a different school of thought.
However i write this here because right now I can't work out if Bradish is playing the unfortunate giraffe to a gang of pihrannas, or a black woman to a pack of Klansmen. Basically; she is being attacked from all angles.
Now, sure, go for it. Of course you have every right to sling mud. I'm only jealous that the only mud i ever got was from Norm.
However there is a certain irony that ought be appreciated. That in our disgust tat this woman is using her right and ability to self expression to spill hatred and bile, we are doing the same. ONe of us smelt blood and the rest have swam in for the kill. It really does make everyone look so justified when we call names lie the 'old cunt.'
It's not really my place to try to pull everyone into line (especially when I'm more comfortable stirring shit than cleaning it). I don't really have a legal or ethical argument to defend. All I want to say is that while we're all enjoying our little shitfight, I really hope nobody tries to pull the one about defending the principles of good, or teaching a lesson or standing up for what's right or whatever; it's a high shool bullying frenzy on a woman whose predominant crime is to belong to a different school of thought.
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Comment by alt_ed
Pop Culturer
Alted Opinion
You know, I'm not actually attacking her based on any personal moral standings or mantra that i live by-- i simply don't like the woman, and sometimes, although i know it wont achieve anything in the long run... it just feels nice to get down and dirty, and let off a bit of steam.
I just don't know that she deserves to be cast as the victim in this script... after all, she's the one with the shotgun!
This also isn't an excuse, but i've never pretended to be the most mature person on here... i am after all only 21- Bradish has chosen to jump into this pot of shit, just like the rest of us.
=)
Comment by Morgan Bell
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i think what has happened here is that S.L. has traded insults with quite a few people in a short period of time . . . all these more recent posts criticising Bradish are not an attempt at bullying, they are all rights of reply to specific personal insults
well thats how it all seemed as it was unfolding, i definately dont think it was organised in any way
Comment by RubySoho
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For the record Bradish has called me a whore, a slut, a waste of space and air, loathsome scum, a terrible aunt, a liar, she has told me I am going to get AIDS and die, she has accused me of creating fake Orble personalities and has told me to go abort myself. The only time I have come close to throwing any personal abuse at her is when I called her "a nutcase" after she dedicated a blog to announcing that Winston, my co-blogger on Thought Zone, was actually my creation. Of course she had not the slightest bit of evidence to back up her claim but of course that did not stop her from slandering me.
But I dropped the matter and have managed to deal with her personal insults to me. Where I draw the line Brenton, is when someone demeans my entire gender by claiming we get raped and murdered because we are sluts who deserve it.
I can't speak for anyone else but if you read my post on Bradish, it was clearly focused on her writing and I was simply comparing it to that of a prominent public figure and asking people to see the similarities exhibited by extreme thought, whether that thought is Muslim or Christian.
I wasn't aware that alt_ed had written posts about her at the same time but that is something I cannot help. I did not insult her as a person, but as a writer. If someone is going to put their writing up in the public domain, then they must be prepared to have their work scrutinised.
And if someone is going to refer to women as "pieces of meat" and accuse women of being responsible for AIDS then you can damn well expect that I will not let them get away with it without speaking up.
If you don't think the rights of women are worth defending then that's your prerogative, but please don't compare me to a fucking KKK member when all I am doing is standing up for what I believe in. Equality and respect for 50% of the fucking population. Is that so much to ask?
Thanks,
Ruby
Comment by Mrs M
Mum's Word
Aren't you being all mature?
You've been around long enough to know that this isn't the first time SL has caused controversy.
And let's face it, she never enters a discussion without some sort of personal insult and huge assumptions, mainly negative, of other bloggers.
This does look like highschool bullying but SL is an adult and if she is going to attack people the way she does, then she should expect to cop some flak for it.
I don't know if you've read her rebuttal post but she picks on a 14 year girl. Dianna, the blogger here on Orble. Talk about bullying.
School yard bullying pick on a defenceless victim. SL comes looking for it.
She's been calling alt_ed, shit_ed, Do we really accept that?
She has said some nasty nasty things in these last couple of days. We can't excuse it just because she's SL.
Love & stuff
Mrs M
Comment by Ahmed
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nor will it be the last but this is a little too big, against her, and to put it quite frankly it's crossing over from harmless online flamewar to personal and mean.
We should excuse it because she's SL. Need to be bigger than our emotions here.
Comment by RubySoho
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have you read her rebuttal post "feminist my butt?'
and you say we are getting too personal and mean?
you can excuse it if you like but then you haven't just being told you deserve to be raped and murdered. Until you know what that feels like then I suggest you just stay out of it.
It was a coincidence that alt_ed and I put our posts up at the same time. But both us were replying to the verbal abuse that Bradish threw at us yesterday.
She just happened to have pushed both of us too far at the same time is all.
And for the last time I was not being personal and mean in my post. I compared one set of deranged writings with another set of deranged writings.
Where was I being personal?
Comment by Ahmed
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It was simply that Damo and Raven were getting a little too aggressive and for some reason or another I found the best way to diffuse that situation was by warming up to you and putting things in perspective for them.
I'm not here to say one person is right and another person is wrong, I would be if it meant ending this nonesense but it won't. So don't ask me whose being personal and whose wrong or whose right, those opinions I keep to myself because putting them out on the table won't change anything.
So here I am trying to think about the concept of perspective, but like the saying goes, Hell Hath No Fury Like A Woman's Wrath. Maybe there isn't a side willing to look at things in perspective. Maybe this fight iwll go on and it will end because the novelty of anger has worn off, no one will look back and think 'gee that was stupid'. That's what I mean by perspective, just looking at the grand scheme of things and answering the simple question, what does this do besides make me feel better about myself?
Whatever Bradish says Bradish says, you cannot change whats in her mind, you cannot show the truth to make it more obvious than it already is. All you can do is contribute to this flamewar and get aggressive. In the end all you're doing is preaching to the choir and ultimately all you'll ever achieve is more bitterness.
I admit I'll be genuinely dissapointed if Bradish ends this pointless flameware before you do, mostly because I regard you as higher than her in terms of character.
Comment by RubySoho
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Yes, I exchanged some words with her on Morgan's post but I did not intend on writing my last post until I read Bradish's post on feminists last night.
Now you can accuse me of being petty or cruel or whatever but the fact remains I wrote it because I am genuinely disturbed at what she wrote. And I remember the outrage Al-Halali caused when he made those statements. And of course everyone beat up on the Muslims because of that.
And then what happens, here is a white, American, Christian WOMAN saying almost exactly the same thing. I saw the connection and I posted on it. Yes, perhaps the fact my post came out at the same time as alt_ed's makes it seem like we are ganging up on her but that's just not the case.
I can't help the timing Ahmed. But I put a hell of a lot of work into my blog. I research my posts meticulously, I do not slander for the sake of it.
I'm sorry you are displeased but I stand by my post.
Women are not pieces of meat who are to blame for their own rape and murder. And I will speak out against anyone who says they are whether that person is Bradish or Al-Halali or the devil himself (haha). I would have written that post no matter who wrote those words Ahmed. It just happened to be Bradish.
And for the record I don't plan on engaging in any further flame wars with her. Her comments on this issue have sickened me to a degree I have never felt before and as such I realise that any further interaction with her is pointless.
And about Damo. if you look over that post, you will see that Damo and Raven did not once bring up why they have taken issue with what I write. They just attacked me as a person. Once again, I will remind you that my post focused on the problems I have with Bradish as a writer, I was very clear in my arguments. It was not a personal, emotional attack.
I happen to take misogyny very seriously, especially when it is being expressed by another woman.
Comment by Ahmed
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Oh you're just tired of all the hating, but soon enough you'll be riled up and start again. You're not stopping because you can see things for what they really are, you're stopping because you're tired of attacking her. The novelty of the anger is wearing out.
You can say what you want about it being personal or not, I don't care, I didn't even bring it up, I've already said I'm not taking a part in the argument. I'm not going to reassure you nor am I going to attack you over anything in regards to the argument so you needn't be bringing up what you believe your position is versus what I might think your position in this mess is.
The funny thing about flamewars is you're always trying to give the opposing party more credit than what you know they actually deserve. I guess otherwise you know you're wasting your time.
Comment by RubySoho
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Comment by Ahmed
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You should understand me well enough to know I try not to involve myself in something that will lead to no progress, when I do I always end up regretting it. So all I'm saying is it's a waste of time, right from the getgo when the first person replied to Bradish it was a waste of time. No good can come of this so ultimately it would be a stretch to try and put any meaning to it or to even justify it. So you have to resort to giving Bradish more credit than she actually has, as if she has as much of a presense as al-hilali.
Just don't take the fact I'm not commenting on it as a sign I'm with you or against you, or that I get it or don't get it.
Comment by RubySoho
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Comment by S.L.
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Comment by Ahmed
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Well I don't think you would need reassurance of where Bradish stands relative to where you stand, I mean it is fairly obvious, but fair enough.
Comment by ORBLE READER AND WRITER
Comment by Damo
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Read this post and absolutely agree with what you have written.
I won't add any more to this as it seems to me that people are not in a listening mood.
Also Ahmed if you are going to start making a point please refrain from referring to old fights as that is counter productive and you did not know the details of what went on prior to that.
Comment by RubySoho
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Boy, it pays to be a raving lunatic huh?
But for the record, most of those insults SL has been throwing WERE NOT ON HER BLOG but on a neutral blog.
I see all the posts that mentioned Bradish have been removed from the most popular list (including this one), yet curiously her post where she calls me "a pathetic waste of skin and air" and says I deserve to get raped and murdered is still there.
People defending SL Bradish's integrity. Now I have seen it all.
Comment by Mrs M
Mum's Word
She could have said the same thing about her concerns with feminism and abortions and HIV/AIDS without being so inflammatory.
She's no fool. Maybe she does do it to get a rise out of us.
Will SL ever change her views? No. It will be a cold day in hell before that happens.
Love & stuff
Mrs M
Comment by D. Armenta
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Haven't you noticed how her blog has shot up the charts these past few days? She knows exactly what she's doing.
Comment by Ahmed
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If it worked that way no one would care about her opinions that much:
Being played the fool much?
Like I said, your argument isn't going to get anything good done, what's more if you really are against the notion of Bradish having an opinion that matters then why make it matter by responding to it?
Comment by Ahmed
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bleh sorry, it was 4am when I wrote that, I don't know what I was thinking -_-
Comment by RubySoho
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If it worked that way no one would care about her opinions that much:
Obviously it does since ALL the posts that mentioned her name have been removed from the most popular list.
Who would have thought that censorship could be that easy? Jeez. Never mind nudie pics, sexism and homophobia, it seems all you have to do to get censored around here is mention the name of the most toxic and destructive blogger around.
Comment by Doug Pollard
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Comment by Ahmed
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I'm just going to repeat the core of the issue: The only reason this refuses to die is because you people give Bradish more credit than she actually has. You're not doing it for the greater good, you're doing it for your own reasons, probably just to feed your anger.
Bradish's opinions matter only as much as you care to reply to them. She can say whatever she wants and whatever she wants, what she says will however gain popularity by the responses.
As an aside, if I were in Jons shoes I would have definitely removed all the posts regarding this infighting, if I were Jon I'd be interested in letting Orble grow and not end up as a fractured community. It isn't censorship, you're free to go start a blog on another network or host your own and talk about how much you hate Bradish, just because you have the freedom to express your views does not mean jon is obliged to give you this freedom.
Comment by Ahmed
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Comment by RubySoho
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Why can't I mention her name just because she happens to be a fellow Orbler? If my post had been titled "Anne Coulter or Sheik Al-Halali?" would it still have been removed?
What kind of world do we live in where people can say that women are bitches, sluts, tramps that deserve to be tortured, raped and killed, that feminists are to be blamed for AIDS, but i can't draw parallels between two schools of extremists thought?
How many posts have you written Ahmed where you draw attention to something you have read on the internet? I was doing the same thing.
And once again I will say that the post where she calls me a baby-killing whore who deserves to be raped and killed is STILL ON THE MOST POPULAR LIST.
Where are our priorities???
Comment by Ahmed
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When did I say you did? I don't understand why you keep bringing this up.
Ann Coulter is far more influentail than Bradish and comparing her to Al-Hilali is fair and doe snot have any elements of infighting about it. If a stranger reads such a post that stranger probably knows who Al-Hilali is and who Ann Coulter is, but that stranger does not know who Bradish is, much less does that stranger care who Bradish is. Granted I'm only explaining why your blog post was removed from the top post list, in reality you have the right to say whatever you want.
What Im asking you to do is to elevate yourself higher than that, you know where Bradish stands and you know where you and pretty much everyone else stands. Don't throw fuel on the fire, live and let live, she can say what she wants, doedsn't make it true and it won't relaly influence anyone.
You can do as you wish, but whatever you choose to do does not mean it's being acted out in Orbles best interests.
Infighting is not good, if you and everyone else ignored Bradish nothing would have come of it. If someone came online and said 'the world is flat, the world is flat' and you ignored that someone would people start believing him/her because of that? If you know Braidh's views are so extreme that no one will believe them why bother trying to expose the truth (or whatever you'd like to call it) if not just to make yourself feel better.
That's probably an oversight by Jon, it's Saturday, he's not going to go through all the top 20 posts and find the ones that are a part of this infighting. It would technically be Cibbunao's job but he's not around, damn him XD (straying a little here)
or more likely, maybe Bradish issued a complaint to Jon, did you do the same? I'm sure Jon would have removed Bradish's post just the same as yours had he known about it.
This is all I'm going to say on the matter, but before I go I'd just like to add one thing. I'll be sincerely dissapointed if Bradish is chased away through some executive order by Jon, you should be too. I'm not sure wher you standon that matter though, but I do hope you agree with me on this if anything.
Comment by Morgan Bell
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if he looks at the popular post list on any given day it will probably have a post (or sometimes several) from S.L. Bradish so the random chap will get a pretty accurate idea of the polical climate on this particular network
if Jon is going to remove objections to and critiques of right-wing writers but leave the right-wing posts there he is misrepresenting the diversity of the community and ensuring the homepage deters any liberal-minded people from joining
perhaps that is Jon's master-plan?
i think since the network has grown, perhaps it is time to re-write the code of conduct so it isnt so vague about what constitutes "offensive behaviour", and to quite specifically outline the kind of articles that are eligible to be displayed in the popular list
Comment by RubySoho
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I don't think she should be chased off but I do think I should be allowed to criticise her work and it was her work I was criticisng. I did not call her any personal names on my blog despite the fact she has done so about me on her blog numerous times.
No, i did not put in a complaint to Jon, because as i said, i do not advocate censorship and I prefer to respond in my own way but when half the story is missing, then something is not going right.
I guess if I was a homophobic, sexist, racist, lying, sub-moronic, ultra-religious ranter, then perhaps my views will stay up on the homepage for all to see.
And like Morgan has alluded to above, I often come across blogs on the internet that dissect the work of writers I have never heard of. I really don't think being world-famous is a pre-requisite to having your work discussed. Anyway, I have messaged Jon asking him what the whole deal i s and am waiting for his reply.
But yes, i have had enough of this too. Oh Bradish, how much are you enjoying this? But as much as you can dish it out, you will never be able to take it will you?
Comment by Doug Pollard
Rainbow Reporter
Comment by Natalie 2
My Life My Muse
Beta Girl Blog
Incidently, if it is true that Ruby's post was removed from the top 20 for the reasons that have been speculated, I will be very disappointed and disillusioned with Orble.
Over the past few days as this has been unfolding, the most hurtful and hateful comments have been leveled by Bradish. That she is the one who some would see as the victim would be laughable if it weren't so depressing.
Comment by RubySoho
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And Brenton I have to say as much as I respect you I am very angry with you right now for this post. You have done nothing but encourage Bradish to see herself as a victim and label the rest of us as attacking her and being on a feeding frenzy. And you have not had the decency to reply to a single comment here.
In the future I suggest you do a little more research before you write a post like this. It is not the fact that Bradish 'belongs to a different school of thought' that led to all these posts about her these past two days. It is the fact that she cannot seem to address anyone who disagrees with her without insulting them and it is the fact that she lies and spreads misinformation and it is the fact that she uses her blog and the comments section of other blogs to attack those that she does not like and then wonder why she upsets people.
And you have just defended her. I cannot understand why.
Comment by Ahmed
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Had the roles been reversed you'd be in her position right now, don't pretend it's otherwise, you got angry so you made a wonderfully 'fair' postknowing full well the responses you'd get, just to feed your anger against her. She on the other hand had to compromise and throw the attacks on you directly.
Don't try to argue your way out of this, we're all the same when we're angry, you're not willing to control your anger and neither is Bradish, you're both the same.
Being the better person means you have to sacrifice a little for the sake of self control, you've shown a total inability to do that.
If ou think this means I'm defending Bradish then so be it, all I can say is meh, I don't like this feeding frenzy.
Comment by RubySoho
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Awesome. And thanks for missing the point of my "anger". I was angry that someone, anyone could say that women deserve to be hunted down and killed because they are a bunch of no good sluts. That was the purpose of my post But thank you for comparing me to someone who would make such a statement.
Thank you for not seeing the difference between responding to the written word and simply being a hateful bitch.
Thank you for not being able to tell the difference between a writer who researches everything she writes and values truth and a writer who ignores evidence even when it is dropped in her lap.
Thank you for setting off the light bulb above my head that just made me realise what a waste of time you are.
And thank you for being part of the wide wonderful world that continues to treat women like they are nothing. Who thinks that when a woman speaks out against those who would advocate violence towards women she is simply doing it out of spite.
And thanks in advance for not responding to this comment because you have the foresight to know that I will not read anything you write ever again.
Comment by Ahmed
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Cute, considering I've run severel blogs out of Orble which have come across times in which they've recieved more traffic in a single day than the entire Orble network combined I'd say that's probably a non-issue. Not that I'm very interested in blogging anymore, I still do it from time to time but not religously, I'm not in any position to envy you much less do I have reason to envy you.
But hey, thanks for trying to make me angry eh?
I thought I made it amply clear just because I don't agree with your methods does not mean I agree with Bradish
Just like how I thought I made it clear I'm not interested in the argument, just what this flamewar has become.
Also, you're welcome
btw does it feel good to be angry? I'm just wondering, I mean if I took offense to anything you've had to say I'd be fairly uncomfortable right now. Ah well.
Comment by Natalie 2
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Brenton, I'm sorry, but this really is an unfair statement. What do you mean? Every comment that I have made to S.L. in recent days has been standing up for what I believe in. I make no apologies for anything that I've said. It certainly isn't fair for you to diminish the sentiments of the people engaged in this debate by whittling it down to a "high school bullying frenzy". I didn't jump on any band wagon, and if anyone is bullying, I think it is fair to say its the woman calling for her detractors to be aborted.
I haven't said anything malicious, and in my eyes, there is no reason to feel sorry for Bradish. As I said before, she opened herself up to this by engaging in an open forum. That her views are unpopular is one thing. But to brutally attack someone by calling them a "waste of skin" and a "whore" and the like, especially when she has made abundantly clear what she feels should happen to those she considers to be "whores", is beneath my contempt, and not worthy of sympathy or coddling. She has plenty of her supporters who gather at her blog and elevate her.
I don't understand why it appears that some bloggers and maybe even Orble administrators are going out of their way to convince us to walk on egg shells around one of the most hateful writers I have encountered in an awful long time.
Comment by ORBLE READER AND WRITER
Ruby why do you feel the need to pick a fight with every person that doesn't run to your side? You have written some hateful, rude, bigotted comments on a few blogs and if ever someone that has the same opion as you begins to tell you to calm down because you are getting WAY too out of line you turn your attack onto them. Can't you make up your mind as to who you hate? You must be a very angry bitter person.
As for the rest of you, if you don't like what you read from her blog dont read it! If you feel compelled to say something fine.... do it on her blog or on your own- whatever! But the lingering violence and hateful ranting thing just gets so out of hand.
And yes, I think that SL knows exactly what she is doing. Being a person that has been in the media, a published author, a speech giver etc. she has learned, undoubtedly, many tricks along the road.
Oh and Michelle, I mean Mrs. M, SL calls Alt_Ed Shit-Ed because she has known him for years (prior to orble days I gather). Even an idiot could see that. If someone from your past showed up out of the blue that really did you wrong I wonder if you'd not call him a name only he and you would know to get him to realize that you are aware of who he is and that he could not hide behind a new identity. Get a clue please, I know it's hard for you, but try. You're another shit disturber that knows how to stir the pot strategically, so I am wondering why you wouldn't be right beside SL for manipulating things in her favor? Two peas in a pod.... in some ways anyhow.
"Highschool bullying Frenzy" You're damn right Brenton and it continues to grow. I see that there are good people like Damo and Brenton and even Ahmed is showing a kinder more focused adult mentality who have different opinions than SL and telll her so (repeatedly) they stand up for what they believe in "Good for you guys!!!"- Then I see hate mongers that thrive on attention. What a bunch of hypocritical bogots you frenzy feeders are! Yep BIGOTS! There is nothing different from you or a person that hurts another person because they are gay or something. After all SL has a different belief system than you... oh no! She spoke her mind? How dare she!!! Quick everyone pick up your rocks and stone her. Hate is bigotry and bigotry is hate. You all hate conservative, Christians, and in Ruby's case Everyone that doesn't back you up..... yep, highschool drama here.
Comment by D. Armenta
The Florida Keys and Everglades
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What constitutes bad manners?
The male mystique
Debate Fan
By the way, Mrs. M.'s name is not Michelle.
Skipping out now, la la la....
Comment by RubySoho
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Hi Don Lee. Can you give me one example where this has happened? Just one please. Only one. that's all I ask.
But it's very cute of you to stick up for your wife and pretend to be neutral.
Comment by S.L.
The Political Brief
If I had written it, I certainly would NOT have compared myself to anyone else, especially in such an unflattering way.
So take your fancied "detective skills" and polish them off or something D. la la la
Comment by S.L.
The Political Brief
Comment by ORBLE READER AND WRITER
Well, I have seen you jump on Damo before even though he did share your opinion (or it seems as though he does) all because he tried to be a voice of reason and point out a few things to you on another blog. There's "one" Doubt it'll do- as I said you thrive on hate and attention so I am sure that "ONE" example wont mean much to yuo.
As for you SL, call me a coward of you want but I am not stupid. I see all this shit slinging and personally I wouldn't want it anywhere near my blog!!
Comment by RubySoho
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Should I be flattered?
Yes, you are a liar. You said Hillary Clinton said things she never said. When I asked you to give me a link you said you "did not have any proof'. Remember